Legislature(2003 - 2004)

02/27/2004 09:06 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                              MINUTES                                                                                         
                     SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                 
                         February 27, 2004                                                                                    
                              9:06 AM                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPES                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SFC-04 # 23, Side A                                                                                                             
SFC 04 # 23, Side B                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                              
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Gary Wilken convened  the meeting at approximately 9:06 AM.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lyda Green, Co-Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Gary Wilken, Co-Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Con Bunde, Vice Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                             
Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                                                                           
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Also  Attending:    DOUG  LETCH,  Staff  to  Senator  Gary  Stevens;                                                          
JACQUELINE   TUPOU,  staff  to  Co-Chair   Green;  CHRIS   ROBINSON,                                                            
Executive Director, Special  Education Service Agency; PAT DAVIDSON,                                                            
Director,  Division  of Legislative  Audit;  LINDA  HALL,  Director,                                                            
Division  of  Insurance,   Department  of  Community   and  Economic                                                            
Development;  PAUL  F.  LISANKIE,  Director,   Division  of  Workers                                                            
Compensation, Department of Labor and Workforce Development;                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Attending  via Teleconference:   From  offnet  sites: DOUG  GRIFFIN,                                                          
Director, Alcoholic  Beverage Control Board, Department  of Revenue;                                                            
MIKE   BARRY,  Chair,   Board   of  Directors,   Alaska   Industrial                                                            
Development  and  Export  Authority,  Department  of  Community  and                                                            
Economic Development;  CRAIG NORDTVEDT,  Alaska Insurance  Guarantee                                                            
Association; From Anchorage:  DUANE GUILEY, Finance Officer, Special                                                            
Education Service Agency;                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY INFORMATION                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SB 194-LIQUOR DELIVERED TO HOTELS/CRUISE SHIPS                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The  Committee  heard  from  the  sponsor,  the  Alcoholic  Beverage                                                            
Control Board, and an industry  representative. The bill was held in                                                            
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SB 289-EXTENDING THE SPECIAL ED SERVICE AGENCY                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The Committee  heard from the sponsor,  the Division of Legislative                                                             
Audit  and  the Special  Education  Service  Agency.  The  bill  was                                                            
reported from Committee.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SB 276-ALASKA INSURANCE GUARANTY ASSOCIATION                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The Committee  heard from the Department  of Community and  Economic                                                            
Development,   the   Alaska  Industrial   Development   and   Export                                                            
Authority,  the  Alaska  Insurance  Guarantee  Association  and  the                                                            
Department of Labor and  Workforce Development. The bill was held in                                                            
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     SENATE BILL NO. 194                                                                                                        
     "An Act authorizing  delivery of up to two bottles of distilled                                                            
     spirits to a cruise ship passenger or hotel guest."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This  was the first  hearing  for this  bill in  the Senate  Finance                                                            
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  stated  this  bill,  sponsored   by  Senator  Gary                                                            
Stevens, "allows a licensed,  packaged store in Alaska to deliver up                                                            
to two  bottles of  distilled spirits  in a gift  basket to  a hotel                                                            
guest or cruise ship passenger."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DOUG  LETCH,  Staff  to  Senator  Gary  Stevens,  read  the  sponsor                                                            
statement into the record as follows.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     SB 194,  "An Act authorizing  delivery of up to two  bottles of                                                            
     distilled  spirits to a cruise ship passenger  or hotel guest",                                                            
     is a straightforward  bill that brings distilled spirits on par                                                            
     with  wine or  champagne. Current  Alaska liquor  laws allow  a                                                            
     package store  to deliver not more than two bottles  of wine or                                                            
     champagne  in a  gift basket  with  a floral  arrangement  to a                                                            
     cruise  ship passenger  or a hotel guest.  When this  statutory                                                            
     change was  made, distilled spirits were inadvertently  omitted                                                            
     from the bill.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     SB 194  corrects this omission  by allowing a package  store to                                                            
     deliver  not more than  two bottles of  distilled spirits  in a                                                            
     gift  basket  with  a  floral  arrangement  to  a  cruise  ship                                                            
     passenger or a hotel guest.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Hoffman  asked   about   the  initial   legislation   that                                                            
inadvertently overlooked the inclusion of distilled spirits.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DOUG   GRIFFIN,  Director,   Alcoholic   Beverage   Control   Board,                                                            
Department of  Revenue, testified via teleconference  from an offnet                                                            
site that the initial statute  was enacted in 1999. He recalled that                                                            
Senator  Torgerson  sponsored   this  bill  at  the  request  of  an                                                            
entrepreneur in Seward  who wanted to provide this service, although                                                            
no provision  to do so  existed. Mr. Griffin  noted only one  permit                                                            
has been issued  to date and was issued  to the Seward business.  He                                                            
emphasized  that the  Board was  conscious  of the  need to  control                                                            
access  to alcohol  and prevent  widespread  delivery  and to  avoid                                                            
situations such as taxicabs "shuttling" alcohol to parties, etc.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman noted the  sponsor expressed that this was provision                                                            
was  inadvertently  omitted and  asked if  the witness  shared  this                                                            
observation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Griffin was unsure,  noting the original legislation was drafted                                                            
at the  direction of Senator  Torgerson and  the issue of  distilled                                                            
spirits never arose.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson  wanted  assurance   that  this  was  an inadvertent                                                             
omission rather than purposeful.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
BERMAN OBALDIA, Still Spirits,  testified via teleconference from an                                                            
offnet location  that the  intent is to allow  passengers of  cruise                                                            
ships  to purchase  alcohol  in the  event  such products  were  not                                                            
readily available  at their home location  to share with  family and                                                            
friends.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green asked how beer is related to this statute.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Letch responded that  beer is not considered a distilled spirit.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  suggested that  this  could therefore  be  another                                                            
unintended omission.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Letch commented  that he had given  the matter consideration  as                                                            
well.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  asked if bill should be held in Committee  to allow                                                            
for and amendment                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Letch indicated this would be acceptable.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Amendment #1:  This amendment inserts a new bill section  on page 1,                                                            
line 4 to read as follows.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Section  1. This Act  shall be known  as the Gary Stevens  two-                                                            
     pack act of 2004."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson moved for adoption                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson WITHDREW the amendment.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken asked if Mr. Griffin would be willing to work with                                                              
the sponsor to address the inclusion of provisions for beer in the                                                              
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Griffin affirmed he would.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken ordered the bill HELD in Committee.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     SENATE BILL NO. 289                                                                                                        
     "An  Act  extending   the  termination  date   of  the  special                                                            
     education  service  agency;  and  providing  for  an  effective                                                            
     date."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This was the first hearing for this bill in the Senate Finance                                                                  
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken stated this bill, sponsored by Co-Chair Green,                                                                  
"extends the termination date of the Special Education Service                                                                  
Agency (SESA) until June of 2013, an additional nine years."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JACQUELINE TUPOU, staff to Co-Chair Green, testified as follows.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The Alaska  Legislature had established  the Special  Education                                                            
     Service  Agency  in '86.  And the  purpose  of it  was to  help                                                            
     schools  and infant  learning programs  that had children  with                                                            
     severe  disabilities  where  they  had no  local  expertise  to                                                            
     provide  that  for  them.  They  make  it  possible  for  those                                                            
     districts  that  either  a low  or remote  attendance  or,  for                                                            
     instance  if you were in a school  district that had  one blind                                                            
     child,  or one  disabled child.  It enables  those students  to                                                            
     receive  those  services  in their  community.  Those  students                                                            
     would  otherwise have to leave  their families and communities                                                             
     and go into costly  residential treatment programs, which would                                                            
     be  at  a huge  cost  to  the  State.  So as  intended  by  the                                                            
     Legislature,    they    deliver   student-specific     services                                                            
     specifically  to small school districts, but  they have lots of                                                            
     programs  that  are available  statewide,  such  as  workshops,                                                            
     courses,  library, newsletter, and a website,  that all schools                                                            
     have available to them.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     We  recognize  at  this  time  that  the  availability  of  the                                                            
     personnel that have  specialization in student disabilities has                                                            
     really decreased.  At the same time, the incidences of students                                                            
     that  have  these severe  disabilities  has  really  increased,                                                            
     causing a lot of problems in different states.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     We  have  this  bill  before  you that  will  extend  the  SESA                                                            
     education service  agency for another nine years until June 30,                                                            
     2013.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS  ROBINSON,  Executive  Director,  Special   Education  Service                                                            
Agency, testified that he was available to respond to questions.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PAT DAVIDSON,  Director, Division of Legislative Audit  testified to                                                            
the report published December  18, 2003 auditing the Agency [copy on                                                            
file]. She relayed  that during the course of conducting  this audit                                                            
the Division found that  almost all school districts gave statements                                                            
in support  of SESA operations and  the continuation of the  Agency,                                                            
as well as requests for  increased funding of the Agency. She stated                                                            
that  based on  the findings  of the  audit, the  Division issued  a                                                            
recommendation to extend  the termination date for four years to the                                                            
year 2008.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Davidson  spoke to  recommendations  included  in  the  report,                                                            
mostly to address  efficiency issues; primarily a  recommendation to                                                            
expand the use  of teleconferencing "between the SESA  expertise and                                                            
the school districts".  She noted this would result not only in cost                                                            
savings, but would  also provide more services to  school districts,                                                            
a request  expressed by  the districts. She  suggested that  through                                                            
the utilization of teleconferencing  services, the Agency would have                                                            
increased  contact with school  districts.  She predicted that  over                                                            
the next four  to six years, the Agency  would substantially  change                                                            
its delivery  of services, which could  be assessed at the  time the                                                            
recommended four-year extension neared completion.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Davidson  characterized  efficiency  issues identified  in  the                                                            
audit as "minor",  including a recommendation  that managers  pursue                                                            
the    availability    of   the    "e-government    discount"    for                                                            
telecommunications  expenses.  She said the  report also  encourages                                                            
SESA to stress  its status as a State agency rather  than a not-for-                                                            
profit organization  in securing lower  prices with vendors  as well                                                            
as in filing  paperwork with the federal  Internal Revenue  Service.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Davidson  said the  Audit  found that  representatives  of  the                                                            
Department  of Education  and Early Development  and the  Governor's                                                            
Council  on Disabilities  and Special Education  were not  attending                                                            
SESA  meetings. She  stressed  this is  a crucial  element of  State                                                            
oversight of SESAs operations.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson asked what  specific changes were necessary to measure                                                            
the delivery of services.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson  replied  that pilot  programs must  be implemented  to                                                            
start  delivering those  services.  She explained  that specialists                                                             
were helping onsite instructors and teachers.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson asked if the current activities are ineffective.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson  corrected they are very  effective; however  the audit                                                            
suggests  that  the  contact  could  be  increased.  She  noted  the                                                            
availability  of video  conferencing  equipment  currently used  for                                                            
telemedicine.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  noted the legislation provides a nine-year  extension                                                            
and asked the consequences of the longer extension.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson gave two reasons  for a shorter extension. She admitted                                                            
that the existence  of a federally  mandated program is an  argument                                                            
for a longer  extension, although  a four-year extension  allows the                                                            
legislature  to  review  SESA operations.  She  qualified  that  the                                                            
longer extension could  be granted and the legislature could request                                                            
periodic audits  in addition to the automatic audits  conducted when                                                            
an  entity reaches  completion  of  its current  term.  She  stated,                                                            
however, that  statutory changes to programs are usually  offered in                                                            
conjunction with extensions  under the theory that legislation would                                                            
pass easier to avoid sun-setting the entity.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green  noted she was troubled  by the amount of  time taken                                                            
and required  of SESA  to receive  extensions. She  remarked  that a                                                            
nine-year extension would  provide the organization stability in the                                                            
knowledge that it would continue.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  asked if other entities  have been given  nine-year                                                            
extensions.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson responded  that the previous extension  of SESA was ten                                                            
years.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  shared  that  he  was  intrigued  by Commissioner                                                             
Sampson's  assertion that  SESA was  unable to  conclude that  video                                                            
conferencing  would become "the norm"  at this time, given  the over                                                            
80 sites with this capacity.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson relayed  that it would require a substantial  change in                                                            
the  method in  which SESA  delivers  services. She  furthered  that                                                            
without "history" in the  process, the Commissioner was unwilling to                                                            
"recognize  that as the new norm for  service delivery without  more                                                            
experience."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DUANE GUILEY,  Finance Officer,  Special  Education Service  Agency,                                                            
testified via  teleconference from  Anchorage that he was  available                                                            
to answer questions.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Robinson  expressed that an extension  of only four years  would                                                            
have  a negative  impact on  recruitment of  staff.  He told of  the                                                            
several  specialists vacancies,  with  up to  six more anticipated,                                                             
based on the average  tenure of 9.8 years. He detailed  his 20 years                                                            
in this  field  and 14  years recruiting  specialists  for SERA.  He                                                            
informed  of  the  national   shortage  of  qualified  specialists,                                                             
cautioning,  "it  is not  a seller's  market".  He remarked  on  the                                                            
difficulty in  convincing specialists to relocate  to Alaska without                                                            
certainty that the program  would continue. He indicated that if the                                                            
agency were understaffed, financial consequences would occur.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Robinson also  pointed out that other recommendations  contained                                                            
in the audit  appear to be long term  and in conflict with  a short-                                                            
term sunset date on the Agency.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken asked  the  witness to  address  the reluctance  to                                                            
commit to a videoconference process.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Robinson responded  that only a minority of schools in the State                                                            
has  videoconference   capability.  He  speculated   that  focus  on                                                            
utilizing these could result  in an uneven distribution of services.                                                            
He also reminded that many  efforts to implement a videoconferencing                                                            
system have  been unsuccessful and  stressed that SESAs capacity  to                                                            
utilize the systems relies  on "end user capacity". He was uncertain                                                            
whether  schools  in  some  villages  could  comply.  He  qualified,                                                            
however,  that the Board  of SESA  has indicated  intent to  utilize                                                            
teleconferencing  systems, especially for training  purposes. He was                                                            
skeptical  that  videoconferencing  could  ever replace  all  onsite                                                            
visits. He explained the  need for the specialists to understand not                                                            
only the student, but also  the environment surrounding the student.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Robinson  spoke to the benefits  of allowing students  to remain                                                            
in  their homes  and  attend their  local  schools,  rather than  be                                                            
moved, as is done in other states.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  pointed  out  that  the  first  videoconferencing                                                             
systems were  installed ten years  prior, and agreed that  many were                                                            
disappointed  in  its  performance.   However,  he  noted  that  the                                                            
original  technology  did not  involve fiber  optic  cables, as  are                                                            
currently available and significantly improved performance.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  noted a spreadsheet titled, "SESA  Outreach Methods                                                            
by School District" [copy  on file] that listed each school district                                                            
and  asked   if  any  of   the  sites  have   been  identified   for                                                            
videoconferencing programs.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Robinson answered  yes  and referenced  a  spreadsheet  titled,                                                            
"Student-Specific   Consultations   Caseload  Count,  FY   2004  2nd                                                            
Quarter" [copy  on file]. He told of a competitive  grant awarded to                                                            
SESA to develop  an Alaska Autism Resource Center.  He stressed that                                                            
this contract  was "highly  technology intensive"  and specifically                                                             
proposed the use  of videoconferencing to maximize  an "under-funded                                                            
contract  given the  State need  for information  and assistance  in                                                            
autism."   He  told  of   contracts  with   General  Communications                                                             
Incorporated  (GCI) to implement videoconferencing  services  in the                                                            
Bering  Strait, Chugiak,  Lower  Kuskokwim, Lower  Yukon,  Northwest                                                            
Arctic, and Southwest Region school districts.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken knew  of  a demand  for autism  spectrum  disorders                                                            
services  in Fairbanks,  although  no  services were  available.  He                                                            
expressed intent to discuss the matter further at a later date.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Robinson  informed that  the Center is  a resource to  Fairbanks                                                            
and other communities.  He told of  the high attendance at  a recent                                                            
two-day course and seven conferences.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  asked  whether  the  Legislature   should  mandate                                                            
attendance  of Department  of Education  and  Early Development  and                                                            
Governor's   Council   on   Disabilities   and   Special   Education                                                            
representatives at SESA board meetings.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Robinson  detailed the  collaboration  and working relationship                                                             
between  SESA, the  Department and  the Council.  He attributed  the                                                            
lack of attendance  to the multiple  competing responsibilities  and                                                            
high  turnover  rates of  the  particular  staff. He  surmised  that                                                            
because SESA functions  successfully, it is not a "problem area" and                                                            
therefore not of concern for the Department or the Council.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken again asked  whether attendance should be mandatory.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Robinson  responded it  should not, noting  that "the point  has                                                            
been  made" and  that both  agencies were  represented  at the  SESA                                                            
meeting held in  February. He predicted the board  would become more                                                            
assertive in its response to any future nonattendance.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green  offered a motion to  report the bill from  Committee                                                            
with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal note.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There was  no objection and  SB 289 MOVED  from Committee with  zero                                                            
fiscal  note  #1   from  the  Department  of  Education   and  Early                                                            
Development.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     SENATE BILL NO. 276                                                                                                        
     "An Act relating to  the Alaska Insurance Guaranty Association;                                                            
     relating  to joint  insurance arrangements  and assessments  to                                                            
     the  association;   relating  to  the  powers   of  the  Alaska                                                            
     Industrial  Development  and  Export Authority  concerning  the                                                            
     association; and providing for an effective date."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     And                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 276(L&C)                                                                                            
     "An Act relating to  the Alaska Insurance Guaranty Association;                                                            
     relating  to the powers  of the Alaska  Industrial Development                                                             
     and Export Authority  concerning the association; and providing                                                            
     for an effective date."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This  was the first  hearing  for this  bill in  the Senate  Finance                                                            
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken stated this  bill "increases  the Alaska  Insurance                                                            
Guarantee  Association's  ability to  pay workmans'  comp claims  of                                                            
insures that become insolvent."                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  noted bill would not be passed out  of Committee at                                                            
this hearing.  He announced the original  version of the  bill would                                                            
be discussed first, followed  by discussions of the changes proposed                                                            
in the Senate Labor and Commerce committee substitute.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken directed  attention to a spreadsheet titled, "Alaska                                                            
Insurance  Guarantee  Association,  Workers'  Compensation  Account,                                                            
Cash Flow Projection  as of 12/31/2003"  [copy on file] prepared  by                                                            
the Division of Insurance.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
LINDA  HALL,   Director,  Division   of  Insurance,  Department   of                                                            
Community and Economic Development, testified as follows.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     I would like to give  a brief explanation of the situation that                                                            
     has  caused the  need for  some form  of funding  mechanism  to                                                            
     clear   the  deficit   in   the  Alaska   Insurance   Guarantee                                                            
     Association.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     The  Alaska Insurance  Guarantee  Association  is formed  under                                                            
     statutes.  Its  members  are  insurance   companies  who  write                                                            
     property  casualty  business  in  Alaska.  The purpose  of  the                                                            
     Association  is to minimize financial loss to  the claimants or                                                            
     policyholders  when  there  is an  insolvency  of an  insurance                                                            
     carrier.  Assessments are done by the guarantee  association to                                                            
     provide  funds to  pay the  claims of insolvent  insurers.  The                                                            
     guarantee  fund does not have money set aside  to do that; it's                                                            
     called  a "post  loss  assessment".  So there's  no  money-they                                                            
     don't  bank  money  in  case there's  an  insolvency.  They  do                                                            
     assessments   after  they  receive  claims  from  an  insolvent                                                            
     insurance company.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     In July of  2003, Freemont Indemnity was declared  insolvent by                                                            
     the Los Angeles Superior  Court and while they had not actively                                                            
     written  workers'  compensation  for  almost three  years,  our                                                            
     original  claims were  estimated to have  long-term payouts  of                                                            
     approximately  $60 million. When Freemont originally  stopped -                                                            
     their   certificate   was   pulled  in   Alaska   -  they   had                                                            
     approximately   27  percent  of  the Alaska   marketplace.  The                                                            
     magnitude  of that Freemont insolvency far surpassed  any prior                                                            
     insolvency  and  exceeded  the resources  of  the Association,                                                             
     which is the creation then of the cash flow deficit.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Insolvencies  are not new in Alaska in the insurance  industry.                                                            
     There  have been insolvencies  for 20  years. Currently  today,                                                            
     there   are   three   other   insolvent   insurance    workers'                                                            
     compensation  carriers in the Guarantee fund.  Nationally there                                                            
     have been  46 insolvencies over  the last three years,  so this                                                            
     is  not a unique  Alaska problem.  I would  also submit  to you                                                            
     that  as  of February  12,  we  had another  insolvency  of  an                                                            
     insurance  company. They in fact had not written  business here                                                            
     actively  since  1991,  so this  is  13  years old  [and]  adds                                                            
     another $1.6  million to claims that need to  be handled in the                                                            
     Guarantee Association.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     When  there  are insufficient  funds  in the  Association,  the                                                            
     current statute  allows for the pro rating of  claims payments.                                                            
     In  August, as  the director  of the Division  of Insurance,  I                                                            
     received  a  formal  letter  from  the  Guarantee  Association                                                             
     indicating  since they were not anticipating  having sufficient                                                            
     monies  to  pay  claims  in full,  they  would  be  pro  rating                                                            
     payments  to injured workers. Everyone involved  felt that that                                                            
     is a very  objectionable solution and an objectionable  action.                                                            
     But when there was  no money, there was no money. It would mean                                                            
     that injured  workers would receive less than  their - some pro                                                            
     rated amount  of their weekly wage payments;  medical providers                                                            
     would  be paid a  portion of  their bill. As  of February  2 of                                                            
     this  year,  there  are  598  open   claims  in  the  Guarantee                                                            
     Association from the  four insolvent carriers. So we're dealing                                                            
     with a substantial number of injured workers.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     The  other piece  to that  however, the  workers' compensation                                                             
     obligation  is that  of the employer,  who generally  satisfies                                                            
     that obligation  with the purchase  of a workers' compensation                                                             
     policy.  When the  carrier becomes  insolvent,  the claims  are                                                            
     transferred  to  the  Guarantee fund  of  the State.  When  the                                                            
     Guarantee  fund has  no funds  to continue  to pay claims,  the                                                            
     obligation for those  benefits will fall back to the employers.                                                            
     These  are employers who, in  good faith, purchased  a workers'                                                            
     compensation  policy  to meet  their obligation.  They now  are                                                            
     going to  be faced with an additional, unanticipated  costs-the                                                            
     cost  of those  workers' compensation  benefits.  Again,  as of                                                            
     February 2 of this  year, we have 380 Alaskan employers who are                                                            
     exposed to this potential financial obligation.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     I believe on the second  page of the handout I've provided you,                                                            
     there's a chart giving  you some idea of the magnitude of those                                                            
     claims. Generally,  we find most businesses in Alaska - not all                                                            
     by any  means - are  small employers.  The prospect of  a small                                                            
     employer  receiving  back  benefits  totaling $100,000  for  an                                                            
     injured worker, it's fairly daunting.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The  pro ration of claims  was averted  by a couple [of]  loans                                                            
     the  Guarantee fund  received. [The]  California Office  of the                                                            
     Liquidator  provided a $5 million  loan: $4.5 million  from the                                                            
     estate of  Freemont [and] $.5 million from the  estate of Paula                                                            
     Insurance,  another insolvent carrier. In December,  [the State                                                            
     of]  Pennsylvania provided  $2.6 million  as a distribution  of                                                            
     assets from  the Reliance estate. Between assessments  that are                                                            
     currently  allowed  under statute  and loan  proposals, we  did                                                            
     have enough  money that we have  not, to date, had to  pro rate                                                            
     claims or stop paying them totally.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Senate Bill  276 - and you've asked me to speak,  Mr. Chairman,                                                            
     to the original bill,  which I will do - the goal was to find a                                                            
     funding  mechanism to avert the  disastrous outcome  to injured                                                            
     workers  and  employers.  We  attempted  to  find a  method  of                                                            
     securing a stream  of funds without requesting a bailout of the                                                            
     industry  by the State. With  the fiscal issues being  faced by                                                            
     Alaska,  we  looked  for  something  other  than  general  fund                                                            
     revenues to fill this gap.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     The philosophy behind  the original bill was that all employees                                                            
     and  employers  across  the  state  are  involved  in  workers'                                                            
     compensation regardless  of how that obligation is met; whether                                                            
     its  through insurance,  whether its  through self insured,  or                                                            
     whether its  through other funding mechanisms.  The proposal in                                                            
     this  bill spread  the cost of  the funding  across the  entire                                                            
     workers' compensation environment.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     There is  no question a proposed solutions are  not popular. As                                                            
     first  consideration,  I don't  know anybody  who steps up  and                                                            
     says,  "oh, let me pay." But  we do have a painful problem  and                                                            
     in the long run and  in the short run I thing the solutions are                                                            
     painful.  The Guarantee  fund  is a  safety net.  Not only  the                                                            
     Alaska  Legislature  has adopted  this  safety  net, but  every                                                            
     other  state in the  country has adopted  as public policy  the                                                            
     creation  of  a  guarantee   fund  whose  goal  is  to  protect                                                            
     claimants  and policy  holders. The mechanism  to provide  that                                                            
     safety net is the assessment capability.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     As a general  overview of the  Guarantee fund, I would  like to                                                            
     point out  one aspect of it that will become  clearer as I talk                                                            
     about specific bill  proposals. There are three accounts in the                                                            
     Guarantee  fund. One is workers' compensation,  one is auto and                                                            
     one is labeled "other".  "Other" includes everything except, of                                                            
     course, work  comp and auto. Each separate account  is assessed                                                            
     when there  is an insolvency of a carrier writing  that line of                                                            
     business.  As an example, when Reliance was declared  insolvent                                                            
     about  two  and  one  half  years  ago,   they  wrote  workers'                                                            
     compensation,  they wrote  general liability,  so two  accounts                                                            
     were assessed for those lines of business.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     SB 276 proposes  three things. One is an increase  and a change                                                            
     in the methods of  assessment. The first piece of that would be                                                            
     to increase the current  two percent cap to four percent in the                                                            
     account  where there is a shortage  of funds to pay  claims. In                                                            
     this particular  case that would  be the workers' compensation                                                             
     fund. If that did  not produce sufficient monies to pay claims,                                                            
     the  other two accounts  could  also then be  assessed up  to a                                                            
     maximum  of two percent.  These provisions  expand the  current                                                            
     statutory  provisions  for assessments.  Taking  this  approach                                                            
     however,  is not unique  in other states  and is not unique  in                                                            
     Alaska.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SFC 04 # 23, Side B 09:54 AM                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall continued as follows.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Any insolvency should  mean any insolvency could be spread over                                                            
     all lines  of property casualty  business. Today in  Alaska, we                                                            
     have the  "other" account, and  I'm going to call it  a bucket,                                                            
     because it's  an easier term. Today currently,  we have a [one-                                                            
     half]  percent assessment  in  that other  account. That  means                                                            
     every  policy  - your  homeowners  policy,  general  liability,                                                            
     boats, commercial  property, anything that's  not work comp and                                                            
     auto  - that is  with an  admitted insurer,  is being  assessed                                                            
     today  a half a  percent to  cover the cover  the insolvency  -                                                            
     primarily the insolvency of a medical malpractice insurer.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     So I would  submit to you that  it's very unpopular  to discuss                                                            
     somebody's  auto  policy  for  the  insolvency  of  a  workers'                                                            
     compensation  company.  We  do  that  today.  Your homeowners'                                                             
     policy  is  being assessed  for  an  insolvency of  a  [medical                                                            
     malpractice  insurance] carrier. So it's not  something that is                                                            
     particularly unusual even under our statute today.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     The  second piece  of the  assessment process  in the  original                                                            
     bill   proposes  to   assess  other   entities  that   are  not                                                            
     traditionally    assessed.   This   is   probably   even   more                                                            
     controversial  than the  first provision.  It is to assess  the                                                            
     self-insures and the  JIAs [Joint Insurance Arrangement]. These                                                            
     entities do not receive  the benefits of the Guarantee fund. We                                                            
     have considered bringing  them into the Guarantee fund. We have                                                            
     looked at  other states who have self-insured  Guarantee Funds.                                                            
     The latter  has not been particularly successful;  there are no                                                            
     legs  to  enforce  payment  into  those  funds.  It's  also  my                                                            
     personal  point of view - we  have no oversight ability  in the                                                            
     Division  of Insurance  of those entities.  With a traditional                                                             
     insurance  company, if we see  signs of financial distress,  we                                                            
     can  stop them  from doing  business  here. We  can pull  their                                                            
     certificate of authority.  We can't do that with a self-insured                                                            
     or the JIAs.  So it's something that I think  is appropriate to                                                            
     bring  them under the  Guarantee Fund  statute. I realize  they                                                            
     did  not  create this  situation;  they  are  not part  of  the                                                            
     Guarantee Fund.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     What  we looked at was  finding the  broadest possible  base to                                                            
     make this  assessment to make it not as cumbersome  to anybody.                                                            
     The traditional theory of insurance is to spread the risk.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman interjected to ask the amount the self-insured                                                                  
would be assessed under the original legislation.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall listed the total funds for the self insured, including the                                                             
State, and the JIAs would have been approximately $1 million.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman asked the assessment percentage.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall answered two percent  of the cost of all claims as reported                                                            
to the  Department  of Labor and  Workforce  Development. She  noted                                                            
that because  these entities  do not have  policies they do  not pay                                                            
premiums.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde noted  that the  three insurance  accounts  (workers'                                                            
compensation,  auto  and other)  would  be  assessed and  asked  the                                                            
percentage  of the contribution  would be  assessed to the  workers'                                                            
compensation account.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall responded  that the workers'  compensations account  is the                                                            
smallest  by   a  significant  margin.   She  stated  the   workers'                                                            
compensation account currently  generates approximately $4.2 million                                                            
based on  a two percent  assessment. She compared  this to  the auto                                                            
and  other  accounts,  which  are "more  closely  aligned  in  total                                                            
premium volume" and would  each generate approximately $7.5 million.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde commented  that the  beneficiaries  of this  proposal                                                            
would pay the  smallest amount, and those who are  not beneficiaries                                                            
would pay the  largest amount. He agreed that the  broadest possible                                                            
base must be utilized for a successful resolution.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall continued with her testimony as follows.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Generally,  I've been asked, "is this fair" in  speaking to the                                                            
     self-insured  and JIAs.  Our point  was to  spread the cost  as                                                            
     equally  as  possible  and  at  this  point  we  have  an  ugly                                                            
     situation.  I'm not  sure if  fairness enters  the equation  at                                                            
     this point.  Is it fair for an injured worker  to have at least                                                            
     a  minimum  a  termination  of  benefits?  Is it  fair  for  an                                                            
     employer to get back  a $100,000 claim? Is the whole concept of                                                            
     the  Guarantee Fund  fair?  I'm not sure  any of  it's fair.  I                                                            
     think there  has to be a safety net. I think  there has to be a                                                            
     policy.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     The last  component of the bill  would, as a final safety  net,                                                            
     propose  to  allow AIDEA  [Alaska  Industrial  Development  and                                                            
     Export Authority]  to provide guarantees for the Association to                                                            
     obtain loans to meet their cash requirements.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     The  Guarantee Fund  currently under  statute has authority  to                                                            
     borrow but they're  not a viable commercial loan prospect. They                                                            
     have  no assets.  The only  assets they  have are  a stream  of                                                            
     future  assessments, which  in current  estimates are  probably                                                            
     needed  until about  2008. There  was a  substantial amount  of                                                            
     work done  exploring other options,  from bonds to loans.  When                                                            
     you  approach  a commercial  lender  to talk  about  a loan  to                                                            
     somebody  who's knowingly not going to have any  money to start                                                            
     paying  it back  until 2008,  they  don't get  a very  positive                                                            
     response.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     At any rate, the third  part of this would be to allow AIDEA to                                                            
     do a guarantee  of loan, which  would ultimately be  paid back.                                                            
     Maximum principle  balance outstanding at any one time would be                                                            
     $30 million.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     We  worked  with  some  financial  experts  to  find  the  most                                                            
     economical,  efficient way  to provide  access to money  to pay                                                            
     claims.  I believe  you indicated,  Senator  Wilken, that  Mike                                                            
     Barry is  on the phone. Mr. Barry is the chair  of AIDEA and he                                                            
     has worked  with me very diligently  to help me understand  the                                                            
     intricacies of the  financial world and to find ways to provide                                                            
     funding.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     My close  typically, which  won't be today,  is that this  bill                                                            
     contains   some   painful,   expensive   and   very   unpopular                                                            
     provisions. I don't  think the provisions are nearly as painful                                                            
     as the consequences  of no action. I would urge you to focus on                                                            
     the overall  need to find a funding  mechanism and to  consider                                                            
     what will happen if we take no action.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  reiterated conversation  that occurred in  the Senate                                                            
Labor and  Commerce  Committee, in  which it was  determined  that a                                                            
"perfect storm"  caused the current crisis. He asked  the witness to                                                            
address the potential  for another situation in which  the Guarantee                                                            
Fund would be unable to absorb insolvencies.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Wilken  also   asked  the   witness   to  reference   the                                                            
aforementioned table and explain how it relates to the future.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Hall informed  that  medical compensation  claims  remain  open                                                            
indefinitely.  She  qualified  that  settlements  typically  address                                                            
portions  of workers' compensation  benefits,  although the  medical                                                            
provisions   remain  open.  She  noted   the  spreadsheet   provides                                                            
estimates  of incoming assessments  according  to current  statutory                                                            
requirements and "outgoes"  for the claims that are currently in the                                                            
Guarantee Fund.  She stated these figures are based  on reserves "to                                                            
the best of the ability  of the people who work with claims reserves                                                            
and  actuarial  analysis."  She pointed  out  that the  figures  are                                                            
subject  to changes  as claims are  settled and  as injured  workers                                                            
heal  and  return to  work.  She  furthered  that  the data  on  the                                                            
spreadsheet  reflects   the  projections  of  the  amount   required                                                            
incoming  and outgoing  claims  for a calendar  year.  She said  the                                                            
information  assumes an increase in  payments, which also  indicates                                                            
an increase in assessments as premiums increase.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall then remarked  that the current crisis was "precipitated by                                                            
the magnitude  of  the Freemont  insolvency" i.e.  the market  share                                                            
held  by that  company."  She  noted that  other  insolvencies  have                                                            
occurred  that the Guarantee  Fund has been  able to sustain  over a                                                            
number of years.  She informed that  only three insurance  companies                                                            
have  a  market  share  near  the  significance   of  that  Freemont                                                            
Indemnity  had  when it  became  insolvent.  She  had no  reason  to                                                            
surmise that  any of the  current carriers  have financial  distress                                                            
and that they  are stable, solvent companies. She  therefore did not                                                            
anticipate another situation,  but would not guarantee that it would                                                            
never again occur.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman  referenced  the witness'  earlier  comments  about                                                            
notification  of the necessity  of pro rating  benefit payments.  He                                                            
asked if the payments were actually pro rated and if so, why.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall answered that  pro rating did not occur and again indicated                                                            
the loans  and distributions  from  solvent states,  which  provided                                                            
adequate funding  to pay those claims. However, she  warned that the                                                            
Guarantee Fund would run out of money.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman asked whether  it was envisioned in August 2003 that                                                            
the Guarantee Fund would be depleted.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Hall   replied  that  the  managers   of  the  Guarantee   Fund                                                            
anticipated  such and subsequently  notified her. She again  told of                                                            
efforts of  the Association  and the Division  to secure funding  to                                                            
ensure that  the pro ration of claims  did not occur. She  clarified                                                            
that statute  allows for the pro ration  of claims if the  Guarantee                                                            
Fund becomes depleted  or is predicted to do so. She  noted that the                                                            
Fund had sufficient  funds to pay  claims through the year  2003 and                                                            
into a portion of 2004.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman noted  that statute  allows for  the pro ration  of                                                            
funds and asked why pro rationing did not occur.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall responded that  sufficient funding became available shortly                                                            
after  notification  of  the  shortage  from  the  Association.  She                                                            
stressed  that no  state  has ever  prorated  workers' compensation                                                             
claims and  that other states  assisted in  ensuring this would  not                                                            
occur in Alaska.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  wondered  why the witness  was testifying  that the                                                            
payments must  be pro rated, when  they were in fact not  pro rated.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall replied  that statute does  not mandate that pro  rationing                                                            
occur, but rather allows  it to occur. In this instance, she stated,                                                            
assistance was received  from other states and the pro rationing was                                                            
not necessary.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  returned  to  the spreadsheet   and asked  if  the                                                            
current  assessment rate  were increased  from two  percent to  four                                                            
percent if the figures would be doubled.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall affirmed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Wilken  asked   if  the   Fund  would   still  be   short                                                            
approximately   $20  million  if  the  assessment  percentage   were                                                            
increased from two to four percent.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall answered  that the Guarantee  Fund would have a  cumulative                                                            
deficit in the year 2008  of $20, which would be the maximum amount.                                                            
At  this  point,  she  stated  the  trend   would  reverse  and  the                                                            
assessment income would exceed the "outgo".                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken requested  an updated chart  to demonstrate  a four                                                            
percent  assessment,  as well  as  another  column to  indicate  the                                                            
inclusion  of self-insures  and the JIAs.  He added another  funding                                                            
source  as  an assessment  on  the  "other"  insurance  account  and                                                            
requested  data   reflecting  this  source  also  be   included  for                                                            
comparison.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  noted the witness testified  that the Guarantee  Fund                                                            
would be  depleted and  he surmised  this would  occur "much  sooner                                                            
than later", likely in April 2004.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall relayed  updated information indicates the  Fund would have                                                            
sufficient monies until June 2004.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson spoke  of the  overall affect  of  this situation  on                                                            
small businesses.  He warned that  if too much pressure were  placed                                                            
on small business  to contribute to  the Guarantee Fund in  the form                                                            
of increasing  the two percent assessment  to four percent,  and the                                                            
assessment of self-insures,  small businesses would become insolvent                                                            
as well.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall  shared this concern.  She informed  that as of January  1,                                                            
2004,  the  Division  approved  a "very  needed"  rate  increase  in                                                            
workers' compensation  that added an additional two  percent to each                                                            
premium that applied even  to small businesses. She told of separate                                                            
legislation that  would reform the workers' compensation  program to                                                            
reduce  costs.  She  stated  this  issue  was addressed   separately                                                            
because of the  importance of acquiring funding in  a timely manner.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  asked if  consideration had  been given to  exempting                                                            
smaller businesses.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  shared that the workers'  compensation premium  for                                                            
his business rose 23 percent this year.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green  asked if increases  to the auto and other  insurance                                                            
account groups would be "passed on" to consumers.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall answered  the costs would be passed along  to consumers and                                                            
noted this practice is allowed in statute.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green  pointed  out  that this  proposal  would  not  only                                                            
increase costs  to small businesses but homeowners,  vehicle owners,                                                            
etc., as well.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall affirmed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  asked what portion of the funding would  be generated                                                            
from  self-insured  entities,  such  as  municipalities  and  school                                                            
districts.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall  replied that  an assessment  on the  total group would  be                                                            
approximately $1 million.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MIKE   BARRY,  Chair,   Board   of  Directors,   Alaska   Industrial                                                            
Development  and  Export  Authority,  Department  of  Community  and                                                            
Economic Development,  testified via  teleconference from  an offnet                                                            
location  that  AIDEA  supports  this  bill  as well  as  the  other                                                            
legislation to reform the  workers' compensation program. He pointed                                                            
out  that  SB  276  would  resolve  the temporary   funding  crisis,                                                            
although the other legislation  is necessary to avoid future crises.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CRAIG NORDTVEDT,  Alaska Insurance Guarantee Association,  testified                                                            
via  teleconference  from  an  offnet  site   that  the Association                                                             
considers  pro rationing of  benefits as a  last option. He  relayed                                                            
that  the Association  has  not recommended  implementation  of  pro                                                            
rationing  for the current  year only  because it  has been  advised                                                            
that the Legislature  is investigating additional  funding. However,                                                            
he warned  that the Association  must consider  pro rationing  on an                                                            
annual basis anytime the  Guarantee Fund has inadequate funds to pay                                                            
claims for the entire year.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde  understood  the  concept  of  pro  rata  payment  of                                                            
benefits to injured workers.  He also perceived another situation in                                                            
which an employer  inadvertently breeches its obligation  to provide                                                            
benefits  to injured workers  and could  be sued  for payment  by an                                                            
injured worker who has received pro rata payments.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall deferred to Mr. Lisankie.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
PAUL  F.  LISANKIE,  Director,  Division  of Workers  Compensation,                                                             
Department  of Labor and  Workforce Development,  informed  that the                                                            
Workers' Compensation  Act provides  that employers are required  to                                                            
provide insurance.  He surmised  the issue  would become whether  an                                                            
employer  who purchased  workers'  compensation  insurance would  be                                                            
recognized  as  complying  with its  obligation  in good  faith.  He                                                            
preferred that  a judgment would be  made that there was  no failure                                                            
to provide insurance.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  noted injured workers  currently are prohibited  from                                                            
suing  their  employers   under  the  provisions  of   the  workers'                                                            
compensations  laws. He asked if in an instance of  pro rata payment                                                            
of  benefits as  the  result  of the  insurer's  insolvency  whether                                                            
lawsuits would be permitted.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Lisankie commented  that in the United States many opportunities                                                            
exist for filing lawsuits.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green  asked if funds were "infused" to the  Guarantee Fund                                                            
system, whether  the problem would  be solved or if an ongoing  need                                                            
for assessment changes would remain.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall responded  that the system  must be changed to ensure  this                                                            
situation does not reoccur in the future.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green asked  if the calculations  provided  in the  backup                                                            
material  provide  for the  repayment  of the  loans  made by  other                                                            
states to Alaska.  She wanted to know whether repayment  is expected                                                            
or if the funds were grants or settlements.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Hall  replied  that  the  funds  received  from  the  State  of                                                            
Pennsylvania  were an "early distribution  of assets" and  repayment                                                            
is not  necessary. She furthered  that the  funds received  from the                                                            
State of California  are intended  for repayment. She explained  the                                                            
distribution of  assets remaining in the Freemont  Indemnity estate,                                                            
of which Alaska  would be entitled to a portion. She  clarified that                                                            
the assets are not "dollar  for dollar," otherwise the carrier would                                                            
not be insolvent.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green asked  if  the federal  government  operates a  fund                                                            
comparable  to the State Guarantee  Fund. She recalled instances  of                                                            
major life insurance carriers  becoming insolvent and other carriers                                                            
"stepped in".                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall was unaware of  such a federal program. She noted the State                                                            
operates two separate  guarantee funds: the fund in  question, which                                                            
is a  property  casualty fund,  and  another life  health  guarantee                                                            
fund. She stated  that each state operates two such  funds. She told                                                            
of  a national  association,   but qualified  it  does  not  provide                                                            
funding.  She  qualified  that  the matter  has  been  discussed  on                                                            
national and regional levels.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green clarified  the life health  assessment would  not be                                                            
included  in the  proposed  solution  to the  workers' compensation                                                             
situation.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall affirmed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde spoke  to prevention  of a similar  situation  in the                                                            
future  noting a  provision in  this bill  would allow  the fund  to                                                            
receive a  loan from the  Alaska Industrial  Development and  Export                                                            
Authority  (AIDEA). He furthered  that the  other legislation  would                                                            
realize  cost  savings  beneficial   to  both  injured  workers  and                                                            
employers.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  requested an updated chart showing  the information                                                            
he earlier  described  relating  to a  four percent  assessment  and                                                            
assessments  to  JIAs and  self-insured  entities,  to  be used  for                                                            
comparison.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall indicated she would provide this.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson asked if  self-insured pertains to self-employed small                                                            
business  owners   who  are  not   required  to  purchase   workers'                                                            
compensation insurance for themselves.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall  answered  no and defined  self-insured  as "companies  who                                                            
apply  to the  Department  of Labor  and Workforce  Development  for                                                            
exemption  and they have  to meet certain  financial criteria  to do                                                            
that."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  asked for an explanation  of the changes  contained                                                            
in the Senate Labor and Commerce committee substitute.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde remarked  the changes are based on the premise applied                                                            
to insurance,  that the risk  payments must  be spread over  a large                                                            
group of people.  He relayed that  during Senate Labor and  Commerce                                                            
Committee hearings, he  listed attentively as the director explained                                                            
the  problem  with the  Guarantee  Fund  and  outlined the  need  to                                                            
include other  participants in the solution. He learned  that if the                                                            
auto and other accounts  were assessed, the costs would be passed to                                                            
consumers.  He relayed intent to "cut  out the middle man.  We could                                                            
make life less stressful  for those who are trying to do business in                                                            
Alaska  to avoid what  I had  heard mentioned  earlier from  Senator                                                            
Olson  that businesses  being driven  into bankruptcy  because  they                                                            
can't afford  their insurance  payments".  Therefore, he decided  to                                                            
spread the expense to all  Alaskans, who are potential recipients of                                                            
the benefits  of the Guarantee Fund,  through the use of  the excess                                                            
earnings  of  the  permanent  fund.  He  informed  that  the  excess                                                            
earnings are  already used to pay  dividends, administrative  costs,                                                            
inflation   proofing  of  the  fund,   and  to  pay  hold   harmless                                                            
provisions.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken noted  the committee  substitute  also removes  the                                                            
assessment of self-insured entities and JIAs.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  opined that because  these entities are receiving  no                                                            
direct benefit  from the Guarantee Fund, they should  no be required                                                            
to contribute.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde  added that  the  committee  substitute  retains  the                                                            
ability to  access AIDEA  loans in the event  of another  insolvency                                                            
crisis.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken asked whether  this legislation  should be  held to                                                            
await action on  the other bill reforming the workers'  compensation                                                            
program.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  answered this  bill, SB 276,  should not be  held and                                                            
that  a solution  should  timely.  He noted  the  other legislation                                                             
proposes significant  changes to the current system  and may require                                                            
additional consideration.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green  asked  if a  supplemental  appropriation  would  be                                                            
required for FY 04.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall responded  that the original  version of SB 276  includes a                                                            
fiscal note for FY 04 supplemental funding.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde referenced  the letter of intent adopted by the Senate                                                            
Labor  and  Commerce  Committee  that  indicates  payments  are  not                                                            
required all at once.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  announced this bill  would receive another  hearing                                                            
after the following week.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  asked the  witness if the  Senate Labor and  Commerce                                                            
committee substitute  were so substantially different  that it would                                                            
not solve the problem.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall  answered it is  not so different  and that it would  solve                                                            
the problem.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken ordered the bill HELD in Committee.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Gary Wilken adjourned the meeting at 10:35 AM                                                                          

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